The Odyssey
Homer is old! Well, he may have been old--more like his texts are old (like, omg, he usd hole wrds! lol!). The essay describing the history of his books seemed, to me, a little long-winded. Did Homer sing, perform for snaps, or write? First everyone thinks it was written... then they didn't. It could have been: language is old, too. Bernard Knox penned interesting theories and stories, but he did mention how some people pretended there had been other bards coming up with other epics. There really weren't. Faker bards = epics being the new pink.At first, this comment was merely about the essay, but it also applies to the epic: it takes quite a long time to read; it must have taken ages to write. Another mentioned theory comes from my wordplay there--some people think many wrote it over time. I think it was Homer, and he wrote it down, because only Cam Jansen would be able to memorize the whole Odyssey.
The Language of Homer
Homer was popular and as well-quoted as Star Wars in a household of Wietings. Homer, to be concise, used poetic license, at least metrically speaking. There had to be dactyls and spondees (how delightful!) and a certain number of syllables. Because of this, people and places are often described in the same few words, due to the restrictions of meter, syllables, and for what the grammatical case called. Isn't that incredible?
There was speculation that, if Homer performed, he improvised quite a bit and slipped in his regularly-used adjectives where they fit. This way it would be more creative, because apparently, writing ruined the oral bards' talents at improvisation.
Another interesting point is that, factually, Homer had no idea what he was talking about. The map in his mind and the map of the world don't match up that well, and the palace was all over the place... and this is where poetic license fits in again.
There was speculation that, if Homer performed, he improvised quite a bit and slipped in his regularly-used adjectives where they fit. This way it would be more creative, because apparently, writing ruined the oral bards' talents at improvisation.
Another interesting point is that, factually, Homer had no idea what he was talking about. The map in his mind and the map of the world don't match up that well, and the palace was all over the place... and this is where poetic license fits in again.
The Odyssey and the Iliad
They go together.
Western Seas
Homer, apparently, was an explorer. This is shown in how he evaluates the land; he is not specific as to cartography, just landmarks. Bernard Knox mentions the Italian boot in this section, and, I have to agree with you, Keaton, that this part was boring. Also, the thesis is pretty much the last sentence, and it looks bad.
Knox did mention Shakespeare's The Tempest. He says both books were written in the same evaluating manner, despite one being about a shipwreck and the other being about traveling. I remember thinking, as I read this, that he was pulling a lot of this stuff from... uh... nowhere. Shakespeare and Homer were writers. I don't think they were planning on farming everywhere they look or wrote about. They like to describe and use vivid imagery. It's nice that Bernard Knox likes to credit them with having many interests, or something, but I think they liked to be flowery in their language. It engages people. It makes it not boring. People who think Homer and Shakespeare are boring... are boring. Okay, that was general statement. But speaking of Shakespeare, it's totally not hard to read.
Knox did mention Shakespeare's The Tempest. He says both books were written in the same evaluating manner, despite one being about a shipwreck and the other being about traveling. I remember thinking, as I read this, that he was pulling a lot of this stuff from... uh... nowhere. Shakespeare and Homer were writers. I don't think they were planning on farming everywhere they look or wrote about. They like to describe and use vivid imagery. It's nice that Bernard Knox likes to credit them with having many interests, or something, but I think they liked to be flowery in their language. It engages people. It makes it not boring. People who think Homer and Shakespeare are boring... are boring. Okay, that was general statement. But speaking of Shakespeare, it's totally not hard to read.
Voyager
Knox makes it sounds like Odysseus is a pirate! He's deceitful! It's good! That's intriguing. I don't think being deceitful is good--yes, maybe he can escape being eaten by Cyclops, but it certainly sounds as though he's being praised for being a liar. Maybe I glean the wrong things from my readings.
Then, in a sudden change of heart, the word 'voyager' is described as 'relationship between host and guest.' (Whedon calls that a 'companion'...) But really, it is better described as travelers who must avail of the kindness of others on their journey. There aren't bed-and-breakfasts every ten miles when you live in ancient Greece. It's tough to travel. Thus, people need to look out for strangers.
Also, apparently, xeinios = Zeus = protector of strangers. This is totally illogical. If you are one person, and you are the only one who ever has a point of view in the entire world, then this makes sense. Then Zeus takes care of everyone else. But this is not how it goes, and so Zeus has to be taking care of EVERYONE. Not everyone knows each other--in fact, most people don't. So Zeus has to protect... everyone. It's a strange, general way to talk about things, it doesn't make sense, and I don't like it. If Odysseus approaches someone, neither of them know each other, and they're both strangers to each other. Zeus has to protect both of them, then. WHICH DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE. He might as well be called Zeus, protector of every single person. But he's not. Because that's GOD.
Guests receive gifts! That's pretty cool. They can be picky, though--beggars CAN be choosers, at least where Zeus is concerned. (Look at the word 'choosers.' GROSS.) Odysseus refuses immortality and two proposals of marriage. That shows strong bonds of family love.
"The sirens would have kept him forever also, but dead" (pg 31). Thanks, Knox.
Speaking of the dead, Odysseus travels down there, and it's pretty terrible! It's all gray and tired and sad! Everyone hates it. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. JESUS. is not. More on this later.
Also, on page thirty-three, Knox says 'constant vigilance,' which is an obvious Harry Potter reference.
Then, in a sudden change of heart, the word 'voyager' is described as 'relationship between host and guest.' (Whedon calls that a 'companion'...) But really, it is better described as travelers who must avail of the kindness of others on their journey. There aren't bed-and-breakfasts every ten miles when you live in ancient Greece. It's tough to travel. Thus, people need to look out for strangers.
Also, apparently, xeinios = Zeus = protector of strangers. This is totally illogical. If you are one person, and you are the only one who ever has a point of view in the entire world, then this makes sense. Then Zeus takes care of everyone else. But this is not how it goes, and so Zeus has to be taking care of EVERYONE. Not everyone knows each other--in fact, most people don't. So Zeus has to protect... everyone. It's a strange, general way to talk about things, it doesn't make sense, and I don't like it. If Odysseus approaches someone, neither of them know each other, and they're both strangers to each other. Zeus has to protect both of them, then. WHICH DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE. He might as well be called Zeus, protector of every single person. But he's not. Because that's GOD.
Guests receive gifts! That's pretty cool. They can be picky, though--beggars CAN be choosers, at least where Zeus is concerned. (Look at the word 'choosers.' GROSS.) Odysseus refuses immortality and two proposals of marriage. That shows strong bonds of family love.
"The sirens would have kept him forever also, but dead" (pg 31). Thanks, Knox.
Speaking of the dead, Odysseus travels down there, and it's pretty terrible! It's all gray and tired and sad! Everyone hates it. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. JESUS. is not. More on this later.
Also, on page thirty-three, Knox says 'constant vigilance,' which is an obvious Harry Potter reference.
Hero
Lies are good! Be proud!
My idea of a hero is not a liar. I suppose, as was mentioned before, that he deceived to protect from one-eyed giants ("Isn't that a smelly kind of cheese?"). However, deceit shouldn't be a valued trait when it comes to heroes. (He's also spoken of as a 'persuasive speaker,' or a liar... coughobamacough.)
Odysseus is also very proud of his social position, which seems to me to be very much a Jane Austen approach, or perhaps she had a very Homer-type view. Odysseus demands respect, just as Lady Catherine does. Respect is good where respect is due, and I'm sure he's quite respectable. However, I don't like the traits laid out here for a leader. They don't appear to be very God-pleasing... however, their gods were people like Zeus and Aphrodite, who aren't entirely wholesome, either. SPEAKING OF...
My idea of a hero is not a liar. I suppose, as was mentioned before, that he deceived to protect from one-eyed giants ("Isn't that a smelly kind of cheese?"). However, deceit shouldn't be a valued trait when it comes to heroes. (He's also spoken of as a 'persuasive speaker,' or a liar... coughobamacough.)
Odysseus is also very proud of his social position, which seems to me to be very much a Jane Austen approach, or perhaps she had a very Homer-type view. Odysseus demands respect, just as Lady Catherine does. Respect is good where respect is due, and I'm sure he's quite respectable. However, I don't like the traits laid out here for a leader. They don't appear to be very God-pleasing... however, their gods were people like Zeus and Aphrodite, who aren't entirely wholesome, either. SPEAKING OF...
Gods
They play favorites. They play doll with the lives and cities of the world. Slightly annoying, very arrogant, and thankfully, total crap.
For example, Zeus gives over Troy. Hera gives him three cities in exchange... then seduces him. It's an everyday routine. Messing with mortals in the morning, a little seducing before teatime, end the day with a burning, hypocritical rage, and we're set. It's easy to see that sinful man made up these gods. Gods are fickle. (This next sentence is exactly what I have written in my notes...) OMG THE TRINITY!
I like that Homer makes up this stuff, though. It sort of proves my point. Knox mentions how one translator didn't like the story, so he changed a few words, and voila. The gods were different. They're figments of imagination. They're fun to learn about, but they have very few godlike traits: they can change ships to stone. They live on a magical mountain. They can change their appearance. Did they save damned humanity from eternal death? NO. Lame.
For example, Zeus gives over Troy. Hera gives him three cities in exchange... then seduces him. It's an everyday routine. Messing with mortals in the morning, a little seducing before teatime, end the day with a burning, hypocritical rage, and we're set. It's easy to see that sinful man made up these gods. Gods are fickle. (This next sentence is exactly what I have written in my notes...) OMG THE TRINITY!
I like that Homer makes up this stuff, though. It sort of proves my point. Knox mentions how one translator didn't like the story, so he changed a few words, and voila. The gods were different. They're figments of imagination. They're fun to learn about, but they have very few godlike traits: they can change ships to stone. They live on a magical mountain. They can change their appearance. Did they save damned humanity from eternal death? NO. Lame.
Women and Men
Knox says women play peaceful roles in The Odyssey, and then he goes on to say that Circe was 'temptingly restful' and Calypso was 'oppressive.' I fail to see how these word choices portray peacefulness. They aren't in fights, but they certainly don't offer rest and respite.
It also outlines how Telemachus wasn't too kind to his mother. This seems over-analyzed: it's just how Homer wrote it. I don't think he psychoanalyzed every character and gave Telemachus deep, rebellious feelings towards his mother. Homer probably just wanted a beefy story. I do.
Penelope is sneaky, and also kind of a wench.
In conclusion of the introduction, no one really knows why Homer did what he did. It gives us plenty to think about, but much of it seems rather made-up. Also, truly, the introduction gives so much away, which is sad.
It also outlines how Telemachus wasn't too kind to his mother. This seems over-analyzed: it's just how Homer wrote it. I don't think he psychoanalyzed every character and gave Telemachus deep, rebellious feelings towards his mother. Homer probably just wanted a beefy story. I do.
Penelope is sneaky, and also kind of a wench.
In conclusion of the introduction, no one really knows why Homer did what he did. It gives us plenty to think about, but much of it seems rather made-up. Also, truly, the introduction gives so much away, which is sad.
Pronunciation
Interesting. How do you know which syllables to stress? Is it a weird Greek thing?
“Homer, apparently, was an explorer. This is shown in how he evaluates the land; he is not specific as to cartography, just landmarks.” Therefore, he was a woman. This is the thought that followed reading these two sentences...I thought I'd share these words of enlightenment with you.
ReplyDeleteI had a conversation with Nathan about this... I was giving directions, and he was like, "How many miles? what are the names of the streets?" And I responded, "Port... something. I don't know." (ps i hope it wasn't a comment on my writing abilities.)
ReplyDeleteHey. This is Keaton. I dunno if it'll show up as the right person.
ReplyDeletea) Ancient greek writing didn't have the stress marks, but scholars figured out which syllables were stressed. It's poetry--dactylic hexameter. The stressmarks every so often gave it away. So the original greek might or might not rhyme, but it does have that going for it poetically.
b) Zeus as "the god of strangers" is... not as retarded as all that. "strangers" means "strange people who show up at your door and need taking care of," not "someone you don't know."
so if zeus protects strangers, he's protecting travellers, and unknown guests in the host/guest relationship.
c) This host/guest relationship was a big deal back then. Being a good host was part of hospitality, and being a good guest is part of hospitality. This hospitality was the basis of civilization back then.
ReplyDeletenowadays, we can travel hundreds of miles and not get killed. back then, traveling was DANGEROUS, and you weren't sure if you were going to get robbed and beaten on the road, or EATEN BY A CYCLOPS where you tried to stay... having a good host on the way who would feed you and not eat you was important.
Without those good hosts, you couldn't travel. and without travel, you couldn't trade or get anywhere. And since you need those things in order to have a civilization.... hospitality = necessary. #important
OH OKAY. well i'm gald this is explained. maybe i'll stop being stupid about it now. thanks.
ReplyDelete